Just a thought

It’s probably a sign of unhealthy obsession when you’re reading something completely unrelated to Doctor Who (or whatever) – and suddenly a sentence leaps out and screams “JACK!!” But that’s what happened, in the middle of a biography of Jan Struther (creator of Mrs Miniver):

Sometimes two very happily married people crave the company of one less happy unmarried person, who is dazzled by their company and envious of their relationship and reminds them of their luck. Perhaps the fact that they need such a person is a sign that they are not quite as happy as they think.

I know the Doctor and Rose never officially married, but that is just spot on.

Think I may not quite be done with Safe Harbour after all. Found myself sketching out Chapter One of a sequel last night, which really rather horrifies me.

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12 thoughts on “Just a thought

  1. That is a great quote and I hope you do a sequal to Safe Harbour. I never reviewed but I read it a few days ago and really enjoyed it!
    And others also have the same problem. I still have my Doctor=Odysseus thing…

  2. Interesting. See, to me, OT3 is a valid way to diverge from the story and develop your own version..but I must confess I don’t see it as *canon,* not after tSoD. The Doctor’s mind is just not in the same space as Jack’s, regarding their affection for each other. Rose and the Doctor seemed as happy minus Jack as they were with him(although it can be argued that they shouldn’t have been). I don’t know, the idea that they owe him a place in their relationship because the Doctor abandoned him and Jack loves them…it doesn’t sit any better with me than the idea that the Doctor owes Martha affection because she loves him.

  3. Sometimes two very happily married people crave the company of one less happy unmarried person, who is dazzled by their company and envious of their relationship and reminds them of their luck. Perhaps the fact that they need such a person is a sign that they are not quite as happy as they think.
    …I agree with the first statement, but take issue with the second. It depends on the situation. I can absolutely relate; I really want our unrequited mostly-platonic OT3 component roommate to come with us when Marc and I move. I would really prefer that she be nearby for pretty much the duration. By which I mean, you know, always. She’s quickly become one of my best friends of all time, and does serve as both a complement and a buffer to the two of us, kinda like how Jack is to Rose and the Doctor. Only without the hot threesome sex. Except of course, real life is different than fiction šŸ˜‰

  4. That you’re contemplating a sequel does not horrify me! And I agree: I really do think that the Doctor and Rose need Jack. Without him, in S2, they coped fine within their own little insular world, but I think they really needed him to ground them and remind them of the universe around them šŸ˜‰ Plus I really do believe that the Doctor cares deeply for Jack, even post-Satellite Five: I take that from Utopia, and everything that went unspoken in SoD and LotTL.
    Sequel? Bring it on!

  5. I think I’ve squared it in my own mind like this: RTD plays around a lot with the idea of families vs sexual relationships and the pros and cons of each. I see Jack as someone who badly needs a family connection but only knows how to relate to people in a sexual context. He struggles with the idea that he’s of real value to people if they don’t want to sleep with him.
    My last story was an interesting journey into working this one out. Like you I see Rose and the Doctor as complete in themselves and I don’t go the whole OT3 route. But I felt that Jack needed one sexual experience, at least, with the Doctor, and possibly Rose as well, to give him the confidence that they were committed to him and wouldn’t run out on him again. And I have a feeling that once that barrier is breached, he’ll be more comfortable as their dearly loved, but mostly or completely platonic, friend.
    The parallel with Martha is interesting, but I see a difference between Jack and Martha – Jack lived with them and shared their lives for at least a few weeks, maybe longer, and had shown himself willing, at least twice, to die for them. And then he was abandoned, very cruelly, in a situation that the Doctor and Rose had brought about by their own questionable decisions. They owed him an explanation and a great deal more.
    Although arguably the Doctor sent out seduction signals to Martha, it was overwhelmingly clear for most of their relationship that he wasn’t emotionally available to her in that way at all.
    Jack needs to get his sexual attraction to the Doctor out of his system, I think. Then they can relate to each other as friends, and Jack will be free to pursue whatever other sexual relationships he wants and needs. There are signs, so far, that this is starting to happen in TW Season 2. I liked the way he was clearly coming on to Gwen in E1 but in E2 he seemed to get past that, and relate to her as a colleague and accept her engagement to Rhys with real pleasure for her. That’s a sign, to me at least, that some of his issues are being laid to rest. He does desperately need a family and in my timeline that space is filled by the Doctor and Rose – they’re almost surrogate parents, as Jackie was to the Doctor in S2. In the actual series that’ll possibly get addressed some other way, but I’ve a feeling it won’t simply be through his team.

  6. Like you, I find the second statement more controversial, and in fact even the writer qualifies it. (Interestingly, it’s written by Jan Struther’s own grand-daughter, so she may well be bringing a lot of other baggage to it).
    For me, Jack’s the grit in the oyster; he makes the Ten/Rose relationship into a pearl. One quotation which I nearly put into Safe Harbour, but couldn’t quite shoehorn in was “A ship in a harbour is safe, but that isn’t what ships are built for”. Jack turns their gaze outward, away from their self-involved in-love-ness, the kind of thing we saw in NE and T&C, which could get old very quickly. He makes them function in society, and see that they have a joint role relating to people outside their own partnership.
    And threesome sex? I think they’d do it maybe once or twice, get it out of the way, and then Jack would know he belonged and start working on one of his own big issues – why he needs to have sex with people to think he matters to them.

  7. Exactly. Up to Utopia, I still felt the Jack/Nine kiss came from nowhere and was just RTD being provocative. But after the Radiation Room scene, which was virtually workshopped between JB, RTD and DT, the sexual attraction was the elephant in the room. People go on about Dr/Master slash but it’s nothing compared to that in my book.
    So then I had to deal with it. I was dragged to it kicking and screaming because I’m very conventional about these things and I’d still rather not write the mechanics of how they’d figure it out, thanks very much. He’s their bridge to society, and they’re his bridge to intimacy, maybe the parents he never had. And I think he has to sleep with them before he can look at what else is on offer.
    I want to look at the issue of Rose wanting to have a child at some point, too. I’ve seen so much babyfic where it all works out fine and they’re cuddling a cute little toddler, but even if it was physically possible, the implications would be enormous and, for the Doctor at least, I think they’d be impossible to overcome. So the next stage of the story would have themes of mothering, nurturing and fertility, and how you move into a commitment relationship without looking at all that. Many couples with an exclusive love for one another eventually learn to be less self-involved by having kids. I think Rose and the Doctor would need to find another way, Jack would be part of that process, and it would be a fascinating story.

  8. “The Time Lord Ulysses and Human woman Penelope Gate use the Loom of the House of Lungbarrow to facilitate an interspecies pregnancy and conceive a child. Possibly as a result of the Micen Island incident the Chris Baker Doctor jumps looms and is woven into the biodata of Penelope and Ulysses’s child. This child will become the Doctor.”
    http://meshyfish.com/%7Eroo/docwho3.html
    His parents’ names crop up in a number of the Eighth Doctor books – eg “Gallifrey Chronicles”. The humanity of Penelope is a little more in doubt, the main source for it being the TV movie, which is not entirely accepted as canon.

  9. I see Jack as someone who badly needs a family connection but only knows how to relate to people in a sexual context. He struggles with the idea that he’s of real value to people if they don’t want to sleep with him.
    I do agree with you that Jack’s attraction to anything and everything isn’t as quite as functional as the show seems to think. It’s not a positive thing, for him to not be capable of relating to someone in a nonsexual manner. That’s exactly why the thought of the Doctor and Rose offering him sex as a sign of love bothers me. They shouldn’t have to do that, not if they don’t love him that way. I suppose if they’re willing to, it’s one thing, but I just can’t see it, not from the Doctor at least.
    And then he was abandoned, very cruelly, in a situation that the Doctor and Rose had brought about by their own questionable decisions. They owed him an explanation and a great deal more.
    I do think the Doctor owes Jack a heartfelt apology, although there’s really nothing he can do to make up for leaving Jack behind. Rose? I don’t think she was at fault. You can spin the Doctor’s lie to her and her acceptance in several ways, but I’m one to take it at face value. The writers wanted to shunt Jack off to his own show and wanted Rose to deal with the Doctor’s regeneration alone. They didn’t execute that particularly well, but I don’t think it’s meant to reflect poorly on her. It’s just…yes, they were happy and he was not. Their happiness didn’t create his unhappiness, though, any more than the reverse is true.

  10. dazzled by their company and envious of their relationship and reminds them of their luck.
    I agree with you, that’s a very, very good description of where Jack is right now, in the Safe Harbour universe and probably also in canon.
    Think I may not quite be done with Safe Harbour after all. Found myself sketching out Chapter One of a sequel last night, which really rather horrifies me.
    Those damn bunnies, eh? šŸ˜‰

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